Dave is regarded as one of today’s leading brand builders in B2B (named a 2019 Comparably Top Marketing Leader).
At the time of this recording he was VP of Marketing at Drift where he started as Sr. Marketing Manager & first full-time marketing hire. Since joining he helped Drift grow from $0 to eight-figures+ in revenue, created the category of Conversational Marketing, and become one of the fastest growing SaaS companies of all-time (backed by CRV, General Catalyst, and Sequoia). Now he's CMO at Privy.com.
💡 Today Dave is opening up about some of things in marketing that he's incredibly excited about right now, a major business challenge from his time at Drift, and some of the best business advice he's ever received! 💡
Speaker 2: (00:07)
welcome or a welcome back to insight or insights, timely and relevant insights from BB insiders. I'm your host Lauren McCann. And today we have special guests. David Gearhart. David is regarded as one of today's leading brand builders. Um, he is currently VP of marketing at drift and since joining drift he has helped, um, help grow drift from zero to eight figures in revenue, create the category of conversational marketing and become one of the fastest growing SAS companies of all times. Uh, he is also the coauthor of the number one bestselling book on conversational marketing with drifts CEO David cancel the co-creator of hypergrowth the world's fastest growing modern marketing business event. And if that weren't enough, he's also currently rewriting the playbook for B to B marketing, uh, at drift. And I think they're also kind of a relatively new parents as well.
Speaker 1: (01:07)
Yeah, I have two kids, two kids under two. So figuring that out as we go.
Speaker 2: (01:11)
God, Oh my God, so million things to be totally excited about. Um, I've given kind of a brief overview, um, for anyone who at this point doesn't know who you are. Um, but, uh, maybe just take us through a little bit of your background, just the highlights again, for anyone who's not familiar with, um, you know, with what you do.
Speaker 1: (01:31)
Yeah, I, uh, I mean I think my ultimate highlight is I just like, I love marketing and I can't help, I can't help myself. Like that's what I love doing. I figured I was lucky enough to be able to find out like what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing. And, uh, that's what I love is marketing. And, um, four years ago I got an opportunity to join drift when the company was just starting out. There was, I was the eighth and eighth. The person they hired at the company, there's no other marketing people full time at the time. And so my job was to figure out marketing and, uh, didn't really have, they just got, I just got hired as like a marketing manager and had no experience managing people, building out a team, doing any of this at any type of scale.
Speaker 1: (02:14)
And I've just been lucky enough to be able to grow, um, as fast as the company was growing. And so got promoted to director of marketing after a year, got promoted to VP of marketing after another year of that. And now I've, I've kinda, that's, that's where I'm at, uh, inside the company. We've grown to 300 people. Um, it's been an amazing ride. And, uh, before this I was at, um, HubSpot and constant contact, so I've kind of only been in the B2B sales and marketing space. And so I've, I've been able to basically grow up doing marketing to marketers and it's been a lot of fun and I've learned a lot. So that, that's kinda how I, how I connect all this together is this is really the space that I've been in for, um, you know, since I got out of college 10 years ago.
Speaker 2: (02:57)
That's awesome. Um, cool. So, I mean, thanks for sharing kind of a little bit more of your background. Um, so obviously, like I mentioned in the intro, you have kind of a million things going on. It sounds like there's never a dull moment. Um, what's one trend or you know, sort of thing that's happening in this space that has you the most excited right now?
Speaker 1: (03:21)
Oh, it's really tough to pick one. Um, I think, you know, honestly one thing that I am really excited about, I have been excited about is this the rise of video. I think video, uh, is changing the game for how companies do marketing. And the way that I think about it is not because video is this great marketing channel. The reason I like video is because I actually think it's the one marketing channel that like levels the playing field for everybody because we live it, it's 20, 19, like there is, nobody wants to be marketed to and nobody wants to be sold to anymore. And no matter what you're selling, whether it's, you know, a protein bar or you know, SAS SA enterprise business software, people can find out anything about you without ever talking to anybody at your company. And so as a result, you have to basically give away all of the power in the buying process to those customers.
Speaker 1: (04:14)
And then they're going to show up at your store, which is your website and they're already going to know everything about you. And so one way to like level the playing field is video because video is like you can highly edit videos and you can do a lot of cool stuff, but ultimately conversations like this over video I love because you're going to get a sense of who I really am and who you really are. And I think that's the most important thing in marketing today is trust, right? Authenticity, being real, showing your real person and building trust in a world where nobody wants to be sold to and nobody wants to be marketed to. And then also in a world where nobody trusts anyone, right? Like we don't trust anybody. And so the way to win is not by being a company, but it's by being a person.
Speaker 1: (04:51)
And I think there's no better channel that that shows people who they really are. Then video and there's also a lot of really fun video avenues and so sure there is conversational style videos like this. You can just shoot a really good video on your iPhone. Uh, you could have a, have a video team that, you know, uses gear like this, right, that I have no idea how to use, but I'm just sitting in our studio, uh, to make more like high production videos. Um, or you could just be using an app like ticktock where people are having a lot of fun creating, you know, you know, funny videos, meme videos, music videos. I think there's so much to be done in video that's really changing the, the future of marketing right now.
Speaker 2: (05:28)
That's great. I mean, and you're doing, you're kind of walking the talk, you do a lot of video as well. Maybe you can kind of talk to us about how you are using video, you know, in your own your own projects at drift. Um, you know, and how you're seeing the impact of video in building those relationships.
Speaker 1: (05:47)
I mean, video, so, so video, just so it's a format that comes natural to me personally. Like I've, I have had a podcast for the probably five, six years now. And so as a result, like I've done [inaudible], you know, maybe 500 podcast episodes and so I'm comfortable just talking. And then the next progression there was like, Oh, okay, I got to get comfortable holding this camera in front of my face and then also get comfortable with like not caring that I'm walking down the street and other people are like, look at that idiot. Like thinking he's something important with a camera in front of his face. Right. Um, and so I've gotten all over like to be able to get over that. And so I use video a lot in that way to just almost like use video, like my blog where I've always wanted to have a blog where like I'm always kind of just sharing like thoughts on marketing and just random stuff on my mind.
Speaker 1: (06:37)
But then I realized like, no, actually my blog is kind of like how I use LinkedIn. And so, um, I just post videos there and I might be just walking to work and be like, you know, I'm thinking about this one copywriting tip that I just is on my mind and I just make a video and Sharon and I just pull up my phone and record a video and I'm like, Hey, one question I get a lot is like how, you know, people say, Hey, you talk a lot about copywriting, but how do I actually become a better copywriter? So I want to give you one really simple tip and the next [inaudible] in two minutes just now. And I just give that, right? It's really raw. I stutter, I got to like cross the street, you know? And, and, and I think that's just like a really authentic form of marketing.
Speaker 1: (07:13)
Um, cause it's not highly scripted. It's not highly produced. That is me. Right? So that's kind of like one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum is we just try to think about how from a marketing campaign strategy, like how can we weave video into everything that we're doing? Right? And so instead of just having a blog post, why not have the person who wrote the blog post, make a video and be like, Hey, so today on the blog, I'm breaking down the three things that I talked about where we went to blah, right. That's a great example too. Hey, last week, just like I was just in Chicago for an event and we brought like let's bring somebody on our video team with us and film and we'll film the whole way there and turn that into like a documentary from, from being there all the way down to like [inaudible] we are, we're, we have a product launch next Tuesday.
Speaker 1: (07:55)
Like what's the video for the product launch going to be? And that's more of like a [inaudible] in the studio. Like, Hey, I'm Alexa the product manager on this product, that drift and I'm going to show you three ways to do blah. And so like we really do try to think about like videos, some of that you can apply to every channel. I do think though, the, the number one mistake that people make with video and, and I still make this a lot, is like just making a video. You do have to think about the distribution strategy of it, right? Where like on LinkedIn it's really easy to just post, post a video and your followers are going to see that. And if you have a lot of followers, more people are going to see your video. The challenge I think a lot of B2B marketers make though is they create a lot of video content but then don't really have a plan of where is this going to live and how's it going to, how are people going to see it? And you go to most B2B marketing, you know, B2B video channels on YouTube, right? Pick a company, go to their page and you're going to see that the, the average V video view, ha, you know, video has like 54 views on it, right? No one's going to have any money in business or you know, sign up customers by doing that. And so I do think that you have to be able to match like the [inaudible] distribution of it. Like just making a video on its own is not really a strategy.
Speaker 2: (09:05)
Totally. You know what, I think that's, um, I'm so glad you shared that tip. And actually maybe you could, maybe you could go a little bit deeper for anybody who's watching who is considering video. And I mean, I, I mean I fall into that category as well. So this is like a new show we're doing. Video distribution is still something we're kind of figuring out and kind of, you know, expanding it as we go and everything. Um, but maybe, you know, take, take us inside some of your, like your thought process around how to get the most impact out of a distribution strategy.
Speaker 1: (09:42)
Yeah, well, I mean honestly I think one of the biggest things that people miss in distribution strategy is like good content.
Speaker 1: (09:53)
It's like half of the battle of getting people to watch your thing. And I think we don't, I think as marketers we, we just look internally a little bit and say, Hey, I'm going to make this video about our product and we post it. Right? Whereas like, well, okay, but why would somebody actually watch that video? And I think when you start to dig into like think of some of the thing of some really successful video campaigns that you can think of, like, I'm just going to put you on the spot, but is there, is there like a thing, is there a brand video campaign that you can think of? Like,
Speaker 2: (10:20)
yes, yes. Actually I was just, um, I was just watching this incredible talk, um, the other day from one of the things, period proof, underwear bounds. And so they, and it's, um, let's see, it's the period proof panties and then this sort of like, they founded another company that's this big day, it's called tushy. And so they had these incredible viral video campaigns. And I think the subject matter kind of has this like interesting element by itself, you know? But they were these like creative, really hilarious humor filled videos.
Speaker 1: (11:00)
So I'd love to, I love that you use those exact, those examples because I think like there is, I don't, I haven't seen those videos, right? But like with that subject, you could make videos that make you laugh. You can make videos that make you think you could make videos that make you cry, right? Like, and so I think that that's a great example of like, I don't know how many of us in B2B are applying that lens. Like ultimately what ultimately what's going to get people to watch video is the same. There's one thing that gets people to watch video across any platform today and that's entertainment,
Speaker 2: (11:34)
Speaker 1: (11:35)
We all want to be entertained and entertainment doesn't have to mean you make a funny viral video. Like dollar shave club entertainment could be serious, right? It could be like fact-driven it could be thoughtful and I just think that we don't give enough thought into like, okay, how is this video going to entertain people? And then actually like reverse engineer what needs to be in the video in order to achieve that. I think like one of the, it's amazing that you can just pull out your phone or shoot a video and just start filming in two seconds. But I think what, what you miss from that is I actually think a lot of people would benefit from almost like a pre production meeting where you're sitting in a room and you're saying, okay, what do we want to get out of this video? We want to get one really funny clip because we know if we have the clip that's going to drive people to watch the video, and that clip can also be an ad, which is pre-roll.
Speaker 1: (12:24)
It could be a pre-roll ad on YouTube or LinkedIn or Instagram, whatever. Then we want to get, you know, two or three longer clips that we can use for as kind of like short, you know, videos that we can go that can go on our website. And then we want to have this one main like anchor video that lives on YouTube and that's where we're going to drive everybody to, and the hook is going to be this. Then you tell a story on top of that, right? And so now you're starting to figure out like the hook for the story, how you're going to entertain people and the delivery. And you haven't even shot the video yet. Like you're going to increase your odds of that thing being successful. Now the other thing is though, my advice is not to go spend. I think I'm nervous giving that advice cause I know a lot of marketers will take it to heart and then go spend a week in a room planning a video and the video is going to flop, right?
Speaker 1: (13:05)
And so you also have to be able to make a lot of videos, right? Like you, you might make a hundred videos and the first 99 of them, right, are like nobody's paying any attention to them. But that is the, you know, it's video number a hundred that now you've figured out how to do it right. You've gotten all the bad ones out of your system. Like one thing that I do when I'm stuck with writing a headline or something for a subject line is, um, I just try to, I forced myself to like write five or 10 of them cause I know that like you're just going to naturally like spin out everything that's in your mind and you're going to come out with like the bad ones and then you whittled down those 10 and you pick out two or three. Right? And so I think the same is true with video where you're not going to be good at it right away.
Speaker 1: (13:45)
So you have to be accepted like I got, I'm just going to make a hundred and then I'm going to worry about if there are any good cause you're going to learn so much along the way. And then, you know, I, I also think that like people are only going to remember one or two videos that you make and so you might make a hundred, but it's going to be like most things in marketing, the 80, 20 rule is going to apply and it's going to be 20 of those hundred videos that are really going to pay off for you.
Speaker 2: (14:10)
Awesome. Awesome advice, um, for anyone and something that I'm going to take to heart as well for this, uh, you know, for this web show, and actually it's funny you mentioned sort of that like preproduction plannings, that's something that we're actually just starting to, Mmm. The factor into this whole process.
Speaker 1: (14:31)
You also like, you also have to play to your strengths, right? Like if you don't have, if you don't have anybody charismatic, anybody who's comfortable on camera, anybody who's funny or, you know, I'm just making like angles up, right? Like then video is going to be tough, so you have to figure out like, what is your angle then? So maybe your angle is, there are no faces on camera, but you're going to do a perfect, right. You just have to stack the deck a little bit. And like a lot of people we'll say like, I'm not comfortable being on camera. Well they're like, if you're not comfortable being on camera and you're already going to be up against it when it comes to making something great. And so you've got to figure out like, okay, if not you then who is [inaudible] or if you're not comfortable, are there ways that like you're willing to get comfortable and we can get you
Speaker 2: (15:14)
totally. Um, yeah, and I mean for something like that it's like podcasts, you know, are still a great option. Um, but in terms of getting somebody more comfortable, like I think, I think unless you have a certain kind of personality, there's, there is kind of a challenge in terms of like getting in front of the camera and, um, you know, personally I'm grateful for things like zoom and working remotely and just kind of being in the, you know, being in front of the camera anyway. You know, I'm on an ongoing basis, but like it drifts, you know, I get your emails, I see that you have, um, you know, so many people on your team who are doing that, you know, engaging in video. Like how, how did you kind of warm everybody up and get people, you know, bought into this whole idea of you're going to put yourself in front of the camera and we're going to send this email out to like everybody
Speaker 1: (16:07)
and that's what we're going to do. You know, a lot of it is kind of like, Mmm, it's kind of chicken and the egg, right? Like, you don't, no one's gonna, no one's gonna want to do it unless you've done it. And I think the way that we did it is like, we care a lot about, we care a lot about internal marketing. And so internal marketing, meaning like if you can't get other people that are, you can't get the people inside of your company excited about the thing that you're launching, then there's no way you're going to be able to get the people that are, don't, that don't have any incentive to be here and are just customers or whoever, right? You're not going to get the outside world excited. And so since day one, we've cared a lot about internal marketing at drift, like explaining the why behind we do behind the things that we do.
Speaker 1: (16:52)
And so in the example of a video, the way that we started to get people excited about video was, you know, we just showed them. Uh, so, so we, we have like this one company ritual ritual that's called show and tell where every Friday the whole company shuts down at three o'clock. And every team within the company, uh, has, I don't know why I'm counting, I'm trying to think of how many teams, um, every team within the company has, has, uh, two minutes or maybe it's five minutes, has five minutes to basically give an update on something that happened that week, a story they want to tell. And so the way that that started was just 10 people sitting around the table at drift when we had nothing. Right? And we're nobody just being like, just for some form of like, let's close the week and like hold each other accountable.
Speaker 1: (17:36)
And so you'd be sitting around, you know, having, having like having a snack or whatever and be like, okay, Hey. So this week the big thing I worked on was blah. Oh cool. I didn't know that. I don't know nothing about what engineers do and this guy showing me like what they did. Right. As that evolves to become as big company thing now. And so finance team goes, even the finance team goes, right? Customer success team goes, sales team goes, marketing team goes in each week there's one person that's represented. So rewind back a couple of years ago when we started to really get, uh, serious about video during one of those show and towels, we would say, Hey, this on this, we're going to talk about this, this new thing that we did on LinkedIn where we started LinkedIn rolled out LinkedIn video like October of whatever year. We started using it every day or like, you know, three times a week for X amount of months.
Speaker 1: (18:20)
And here's what we learned and the results were amazing. And so we got to show the company like, Hey, here's how making these videos impacted us. Then that light bulb went off in, in a bunch of people's heads of the company, which is like, wait a second, he didn't use any technology, he just used his phone and I also have a LinkedIn profile. Okay cool. I could start doing this too. And so that kind of like started to snowball. And then the more people that do it, the more people see results and the more people get excited about it. And so somebody, it's that feedback loop. I posted something recently about like I realized that the thing that I'm addicted to in marketing is the feedback loop, which is like, you have this an idea, you have this idea, you create it. And then like within minutes of publishing it, someone's like, Hey, I liked your video.
Speaker 1: (19:02)
And so imagine being somebody who's not even in marketing, but imagine being a salesperson or a customer success person or a product manager at drift and you've never posted a video before and we get you to post your first video. And then like all of a sudden five strangers are commenting like, Hey Alexa, I love this video. And you're like, what? This is so cool. And so we really had to just like let people feel the response from doing it to then be like, Oh my God, I can see how this works. And that has kind of just like resonated, you know, and made its way into the rest of the company.
Speaker 2: (19:33)
That's awesome. Um, I love the whole concept of getting everybody together to just kind of unwind at the end of the week and share and have that transparency.
Speaker 1: (19:43)
Yeah, I mean that, that was honestly like one thing that really helped me as a marketer, like I was a marketer that went into a company that was basically, you know, six engineers, a product manager and two designers. And most people have no idea what marketing does. And so for me to show up and be like, this week I wrote two blog posts right in front of that room, they're going to be like, okay. And like, how does that impact us? And so, you know, I took that opportunity seriously and said, I wrote two blog posts, but look, they got shared by this person who like a dream customer of ours. And they were like, wait a second. And then over weeks I got to show how content that we were creating was like getting more people to use the product that they were building. And like then they were like, Oh my God, I think I love marketing. And so we got to build that relationship together in the early days of the company. And then that has just grown that, you know, you know, through the, through the rise of drift.
Speaker 2: (20:34)
That's awesome. What a great way to get buy-in. Um, you know, from all teams on everything that's like really important and driving results. Um, very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (20:43)
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: (20:44)
Okay. So I mean this is like a huge kind, um, you know, obviously just the idea of video as um, like the next level of marketing and relationship building and building trust and transparency is, I mean it's really exciting. Um, I'm stoked to kind of hear your insights on how to make it more effective. Um, but now actually I want to change gears a little bit and go into something that's been kind of more of a challenge. Less of an ex, you know, maybe it's still exciting, but take us through a recent challenge that you've been through either at Drift or it could be with a customer and help us, I kind of feel the pain of being in that space and walk us through how you, how you overcame that challenge.
Speaker 1: (21:31)
So any challenge that I've got that I've had,
Speaker 2: (21:35)
yeah, it should be. So it should be relatable. So it should be something, something at drift internally, something with a customer, something that, uh, that other people who are, you know, watching it from the B2B community could hear and, and be like, Oh, you know, we went through something like that also. Or I'm going through something like that right now.
Speaker 1: (21:56)
Yeah. Okay. I'll give you, I'll give you one which is like for a while as a company we, um, we really only generated like, we really generated one kind of lead type, um, for our sales team, which is people that were using like the free version of our product. And those leads were great because they were free product users and they were easy to upgrade and close. But then as our business evolved and we needed to reach different people in different audiences, like we needed to basically expand our lead, our lead gen efforts. And so we went from, you know, just kind of having these product qualified leads to like now we're doing events and trade shows and webinars and content and no third party, whatever. And one of the challenges was we, we were struggling on like how to work those leads because they're different, right?
Speaker 1: (22:49)
They are different people. The person who signs up for your product uses it for a couple of days and then reaches kind of some upper limit of it and it has to upgrade. That's a different sale than like, you know, Hey, thanks for coming to that like webinar that we did. I hope with, with Dave and Kate, I hope it was really helpful. Um, can I talk to you about drift sometime? Right. Those are two very different paths. And so I think we just didn't, like, we didn't have a good enough plan in place as a sales and marketing unit to like help make that change. And so what that led to was just kind of like a lot of the classic accusations in sales and marketing, which is like marketing's hitting the lead number. Sales is telling them that like, the leads aren't any good. Marketing's telling sales like, okay, but hold on.
Speaker 1: (23:32)
You're not even following up with the leads that we're giving you. And so we kind of had that like classic marketing and sales, uh, battle. And honestly the, the, the way that we got the way that we got through that was like solely just communication. Like there is no, there is no secret. And so I'm literally getting into a room with the sales leadership team and the marketing leadership team and being able to like come up with a story around that together and how we're going to go fix those challenges. Right? Because I think everybody agreed that, you know, we both can help. Uh, we both gotta we both need to find some, some type of solution. So, you know, on the marketing side that meant more, you know, investing more in demand gen but not just like the front half of demand gen. But like what happens after somebody becomes a lead and you know, instead of just being like, Hey, Hey, we just uploaded 500 new leads in Salesforce and they're in your views, go work them.
Speaker 1: (24:27)
Like, you know, how do we actually enable the sales team? I think the word sales enablement gets thrown around a lot, but I actually, when you flip it and say, how do you enable the sales team to blah, then you're like, Oh, I actually get what that word means now. Right? And so that helped. And then also just like really putting a, putting an SLA in place between sales and marketing had said like, I think the SLA, if I had to look back now, the less that I would have taught myself as a marketer is like the SLA you have with sales is to one way you need to push back more. Meaning like they will, all the pressure was on marketing to generate leads, but we didn't have any of the give and take, which is like, okay, but if we generate these number of leads, you're going to reach out to them within the first 24 hours and 48 hours and here's how many times and here's what you're going to say and do. Right. And so that was like, we, we, I think it has to be this shared plan in order to, to come overcome a challenge like that or else we're just going to be talking at each other forever.
Speaker 2: (25:26)
Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I mean, I, I love that you shared a specific challenge with, you know, it, that moving from one type of lead to, okay, now we have now, now we're, you know, we're bringing in leads from different types of sources and the context is totally different and we have to come up with context based strategies to, you know, to deal with with these leads.
Speaker 1: (25:51)
Yeah. And, and give the sales team and give the sales team like the recipe and the playbook of how to actually do that and everything. Honestly, everything changed from the way new reps got onboarded and trained to the way that we work with the sales team. It's not just like we, you know, said, okay, here's the new leads, go, go.
Speaker 2: (26:09)
Totally. Um, so this is a really big challenge and I think, I'm glad you shared it because it's, I know it's relatable. Um, you know, almost every organization that we with that we work with, they go through this kind of challenge at one time or another or if they don't kind of recognize it. I think in the same way that you just described it, it's like this is, this is a new, this is a new play, this is a new, um, this is a new context, this is a new strategy and maybe they'll bump into that a couple times. But what advice would you have for um, you know, maybe peer, you know, someone in marketing leadership or someone in sales leadership who is in the middle of this challenge right now?
Speaker 1: (26:51)
I think you got to pick like you have to, you have to figuring out one or one to three kind of sales and marketing metrics that are important. I think it's really easy to get lost in kind of the analysis paralysis of like, okay, but this lead does this and the conversion rate is this. And then how many times, like it's so easy to really cut, really quickly come up with 10 to 15 data points of like, why or why not things may be working right? And so I think you just have to come up with like, I think the simpler, I think the simpler our funnel got, the more effective it has been in not only just explaining it to the team, but also just focus from a focus perspective, right? You can't focus on all those things. Um, and so I think we spent a lot of time probably everyone would come to the table with their own story and their own data.
Speaker 1: (27:41)
And one other thing that that has been a big help is, um, we have a centralized ops team at drift. So like there is a marketing ops, there's marketing ops that helps our marketing team and sales ops that helps our sales team, but neither one of them report into those orgs. And so that's on purpose to basically have kind of one source of truth for the company. And then the marketing and sales leaders work with the ops team like, and where's there's one kind of shared thing. And so that way we're not in a meeting with marketing ops telling one story. Okay, here's what our story is going to be. Sales team is in there meeting with sales ops telling another story, and then we both present different data. It gives us basically one sheet of music to play off of and then we each can take what we need from that.
Speaker 2: (28:25)
Awesome. Okay. Um, that's, that's, I, I'm happy that you took us through that. So now we're gonna [inaudible] kind of start to wind down here, but before we do, um, anybody wants to learn more about you or get in touch with the best way to do that?
Speaker 1: (28:42)
Yeah, I'm just at Dave Gearhart, pretty much everywhere, uh, online. And then you can just also email me directly. It's email@example.com.
Speaker 2: (28:49)
Awesome. Okay. And what is one business resource, like a book, a podcast or a technology? Um, and I'm actually gonna maybe we should mention too, two, uh, two each because we've got your book. We have, you know, drove. So Phil, you know, we, we can [inaudible]
Speaker 1: (29:07)
no, I don't ever like plug her own stuff cause if you like, if you're interested in what I'm saying and you like me at all, you'll end up finding that stuff anyway. So, um, I would say so I would give you two books just because I think that the number one book everybody in sales and marketing should read is um, a book called influence by Robert Cialdini, which is a book about social psychology and how people make decisions. And he basically goes through six principles of kind of the unconscious ways our mind makes decisions and it's really powerful understand from a sales and marketing perspective. Um, that is one, the other book that I would recommend is an [inaudible]. It's tough to pick one cause I, I this love marketing books and business books in general. But the other one that I would pick is, is probably a book.
Speaker 1: (29:57)
Um, it's called scientific advertising and it was written in 1923 by a guy named Claude Hopkins. And I recommend this book because you will read it and you will understand that none of the challenges in marketing are new and all of the things that Mmm, we're trying to do now. We're S we're the same a hundred years ago. And so what that gets you to focus on is you focus on the people focus on people are timeless. They we haven't changed in forever. And so like I would spend more of my sales and marketing calories, like figuring out how to understand people and then plugging in the tools and technology where I think so many marketing teams today are like technology first. But like that's just table stakes for everybody. Like if you can't understand social psychology, direct response copywriting, like those things, you're not going to be any successful use of the technology.
Speaker 1: (30:47)
So reading that book not only teaches you some awesome copywriting lessons, but I think it hammers home this is important lesson, which is like focused on people they don't ever change. And that's also why I recommend the first book, which is influence. Awesome. Um, cool. I'm glad you shared that second one as well because I think that's the kind of thing that doesn't really come up very frequently is just some of those timeless, um, you know, resources. And it's actually when that, um, I, I'm not familiar with, I'm going to go check it out. Yeah. Okay. So I'm [inaudible] let's go ahead and wrap up, but as we do, um, I am hoping you can share with us the single best piece of business advice that you have ever received. The best piece of business advice that I received was [inaudible] to focus on, um, my strengths and not my weaknesses.
Speaker 1: (31:41)
And I think that seems so obvious when you say it out loud, but I no, that people struggle with this daily wear. You're in the wrong job at the wrong company in the wrong role or just doing the wrong thing on your team or you think that you need to go learn something that you don't. And I, I'm only using this as an example because I've felt this firsthand in my life and in my career. Like, I, you know, maybe rewind five years ago and I was like, okay, I want to be in marketing and I want to like be successful marketing. And so that means that I gotta be like this spreadsheet marketer and I got to understand, you know, I gotta be able to like do V lookups and pivot tables in my sleep and I gotta be able to, you know, be a math guy and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: (32:23)
And, um, I've actually found the opposite, which is like, so David who's, who's my boss, our CEO, he really pushed me and just said like, forget all that. Like we can hire people who are better and smarter you at that, so you can focus on like this stuff which you're naturally good at. And that was so liberating because that gave me the freedom to basically ignore that stuff and then spend like 99% of my time learning, reading, creating like the things that I'm good at, writing, speaking, uh, creating content, offers, decks, landing page, like, you know, the, that the stuff that I'm good at and like doing and I don't have to focus on the stuff that I'm not good at and that's made the company better. It's made me better. And then he gave me this book, which is called managing oneself by Peter Drucker, which is about 40 pages long.
Speaker 1: (33:05)
And, and he talks about that in the book and he's like, people spend so much time working on their weaknesses and the challenges when you work on your weaknesses, let's say you're not good at math like me, right? Maybe I'm like a a a C minus at math. I could spend a year trying to get better at math and I'm going to go from maybe a C minus to a B, right? But what if I'm like a B plus copywriter already? And what if I spent all that time investing in copywriting, I could go from a B plus to an [inaudible] a plus copywriter, and what's going to have a bigger impact on myself career-wise and the business having an a plus copywriter or like a B level math guy. Right? And so when you think of it in those terms, it's obvious. And so that was the number one thing to me because it was like really liberating and helped me just focus.
Speaker 2: (33:49)
I love it. Uh, thanks so much for sharing that advice. Um, focus on your strengths instead of your weaknesses. Um, totally killer. So, um, Dave, thanks for coming on. This was a blast having you on. You shared so much awesome insights. Um, and for everyone else, if you made it through, thank you for watching. If you liked this video, be sure to subscribe for weekly videos like this. And for more information, visit [inaudible], customer intelligence institute.com and we will see you on the next episode of insider insights.
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